Ed Marsh Consulting

06/03/2026

Why can't successful industrial leaders change — even when they know they should? It's not stubbornness. It's not bias. It's something deeper: their beliefs aren't opinions — they're truths. And you can't argue with truth.
How often is that dissonance the real source of buyer objections?
Understanding epistemological truths — and how to work with them instead of against them — is the key to unlocking change in your company and in your buyers.
In this solo Episode #76, host Ed Marsh explores why middle-market industrial companies struggle to adapt, even when the evidence for change is overwhelming, and lays out five practical strategies for navigating buyers' deeply held beliefs.
Summary
In this episode, Ed Marsh introduces the concept of epistemological truths — beliefs grounded in real evidence and experience that function as unassailable truth for the person holding them. He explains why these truths, not simple bias, are the real barrier to change in middle-market manufacturing companies. Using eleven common examples from industrial sales and marketing, Ed shows how two people can hold completely contradictory yet fully justified truths — and why that makes traditional persuasion useless.
He then presents five strategies for working with epistemological truths rather than against them:

Explore whether their truths are delivering the outcomes they need
Surface contradictory evidence without attacking the belief
Test predictions that their truths imply
Run premortems comparing outcomes under different assumptions
Follow a truth to its logical conclusion to reveal gaps

Takeaways

What we call "bias" in business is often epistemological truth - beliefs backed by real evidence and experience
You cannot hold two contradictory truths simultaneously, which is why change feels impossible
The traits that made founders and Gen2 leaders successful become their ceiling
Telling buyers they're wrong doesn't work - their truth is as justified as yours
Companies that repeat the same messaging as competitors get deflected by buyers' existing truths
Consultative sales and marketing must help buyers examine whether their truths serve their goals
Creating new recognition beats forcing confrontation every time
The political polarization analog applies directly to B2B sales conversations
Sales reps who bring business acumen and outcomes focus can reach CEOs; those peddling specs cannot
84% of the time vendors are contacted, the spec doesn't change - so create projects, don't just find them
Five practical strategies can help you navigate buyers' epistemological truths without attacking them

Takeaway Quote from Ed Marsh

"Stop trying to convince buyers they're wrong. Start helping them discover whether their truths are serving their goals."

LinkedIn: Ed Marsh
Twitter: Ed Marsh
Instagram: Ed Marsh
YouTube:
Show Transcript
Chapters

00:00 🧱 Perception Is Reality — Or Is It?
01:58 🔄 Why Smart Leaders Can't Pull the Trigger on Change
03:25 🗳️ The Political Polarization Analog
04:25 📚 Defining Absolute Truth, Epistemological Truth & Bias
06:35 🏭 11 Epistemological Truths Industrial Leaders Hold
08:59 🧠 Why You Can't Hold Two Contradictory Truths
11:26 ⚔️ The Sales Challenge: Competing Against Buyers' Truths
12:25 🛠️ Five Strategies to Navigate Epistemological Truths
15:41 💡 From Tactics to Transformation
16:48 🎯 Stop Convincing — Start Guiding

05/25/2026

09/08/2025

Economic data point? Material or random noise?

kicks off - only thing missing is attendees…. .

Hints of ‘10?

08/28/2025

08/27/2025

B2B sales in 2025 is confusing.
On the one hand, it's just the same as it's been for years. We need to connect with buyers, build trust, and guide them through decisions.
On the other hand, it's a completely different beast.
That's why Derek Baer is in the studio this week, for a free-wheeling, no-holes-barred discussion and debate on sales topics.
It's time to get comfortable being uncomfortable!
We talk:

Whether to track "quotes" as a metric
Whether anyone can be trained to sell successfully
Accelerators (kickers) in sales compensation
Whether we should hire for technical/industry knowledge, and more.

And the conversation is blunt. "Tell them to f$%k!ng apply" Derek says at one point!
Summary
Derek Baer brings a new format to the studio this week, debating and discussing B2B sales topics. He and Ed disagree about various aspects of sales, and agree about others. Topics include:

the importance of tracking quotes
the compatibility of salespeople with complex B2B sales
qualities that make a great sales rep
role of sales decks - significance of accelerators in compensation plans
how to manage underperformers and disrupters within sales teams.

The conversation emphasizes the need for continuous improvement and investment in sales skills, drawing parallels between sales and other professional pursuits.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Sales Metrics and Tracking Quotes 09:04 The Compatibility of Salespeople in Complex B2B Sales 15:56 Defining Traits of a Great Sales Rep 23:24 The Role of Pitch Decks in Sales 27:29 Understanding Sales Accelerators and Compensation Plans 29:53 Explaining Sales Compensation to the Team 32:42 Managing Underperformers in Sales Teams 35:45 The Impact of Team Dynamics on Performance 41:19 Investing in Sales Skills for Long-Term Success

Resources

Check out Derek's Sales Training website.

LinkedIn: Derek Baer and Ed Marsh
Twitter: Ed Marsh
Instagram: Derek Baer and Ed Marsh
YouTube:
Show Transcript

Insanity is Doing the Same Things and Expecting Different Results

By Einstein's definition, most industrial sales teams are insane. Buyers, their behavior, and AI have changed so much, and yet most teams are operating much the way they have for years.

Derek's straight talk deliveres an important message - so does Ed's recent paper on changes in industrial sales and marketing.

Read more from Ed's recent paper on these critical changes.

08/20/2025

If you haven't asked yourself how to build a B2B website in the new post AI world, you're site is probably underperforming.
Not only has technology advanced, but buyer expectations for features, UX, navigation, and utility have changed. More importantly, the goal of your site has changed as buyer behaviors and search have changed. Today a site works mostly at the bottom of the funnel - the decision stage.
So your top of the funnel marketing must be accomplished using different tools and approaches.
Joe Jerome brings years of design and development experience, and a keen sense of what your industrial marketing website needs to accomplish.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Website Strategy for B2B
05:54 Aligning Website Goals with Business Objectives
12:27 The Impact of AI on Website Design
25:50 Continuous Website Evolution vs. Episodic Projects
32:42 Balancing Aesthetics and Functionality in Design
39:38 SEO and Migration Management
44:54 The Role of Websites in the Sales Process
46:29 Understanding User Behavior on Websites
57:49 The Evolution of Website Forms
01:02:37 Empowering Marketing Teams with Website Control
01:05:51 When to Redo Your Website

Resources

Check out Joe's Brand Builder Solutions website.

LinkedIn: Joe Jerome and Ed Marsh
Twitter: Ed Marsh
Instagram: Ed Marsh
YouTube: and
Show Transcript

The Website is NOT the Only Thing That Has to Change!

AI, Google Search, SEO, buying teams, buying journeys - it's all changing. Quickly. Yes, listen to Joe's tips on how to update your website, but beyond that, there's work to do on the rest of your manufacturing marketing, your industrial sales, and more. That's what I discuss in this guide.

Read more from Ed's recent paper on these critical changes.

08/13/2025

If you're a machinery OEM you probably would like to ignore used machines. They're a hassle. For customers who own them, you have to provide support as components become obsolete and tribal knowledge dwindles.
When you compete against yourself, that's particularly frustrating, especially when it seems like buyers are just trying to save a few bucks and don't care about the hard work of R&D and improvement that you've invested in.
But buyers may see it differently, and Matt Smith draws on years of deep insight in global used machinery markets to explain why it's an entirely rational (not cheap) decision for some buyers in some situations, and why OEMs may cost themselves years of profitable new machinery and after-market sales by ignoring used machines.
Stop ignoring and scoffing at used machines, and consider incorporating them into your overall offering using some of Matt's recommendations.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to the Challenge of Self-Competition 04:03 Understanding Global Asset Optimization 10:17 The Dynamics of the Used Machinery Market 19:23 Leveraging Lead Time and Flexibility 24:08 The Role of OEMs in the Used Machinery Market 31:48 Navigating Capital Investment Decisions 40:09 The Importance of Risk Management in Equipment Purchases 46:05 Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Resources

Check out Matt's website and other recommended used machinery resources:
AOTCO Surface Finishing

Asset Industry Resources Mentioned in the Episode:
Investment Recovery Association
EquipNet
BidSpotter
LabX
Surplus Solutions
Surplus Sherpa

LinkedIn: Matt Smith and Ed Marsh
Twitter: Ed Marsh
Instagram: Ed Marsh
YouTube:
Show Transcript
Rethinking Our Market Attitudes and Assumptions

Recognizing the potential of used machines as a business benefit rather than a threat is just one example of how we should adjust our market assumptions.

Buyer habits and expectations are changing, just as AI is shifting how buyers search and consider complex decisions.

Read more from Ed's recent paper on these critical changes.

08/06/2025

If you're not embracing PR as a key pillar of your industrial marketing strategy, you're probably not going to survive the collapse of traditional SEO driven content marketing!
AI is disrupting everything about how buyers think, research, learn, evaluate and buy. It's overwhelming and we can only guess about where we'll be in five years. In the meantime, we have to position ourselves to thrive amidst the trends and changes we see. That means that we must become known and trusted - and SEO experts like Rand Fishkin and Marcus Sheridan suggest that the playbook of Public Relations is an important element of that. But you have to do it right.....
So this week, Greg Matusky, founder of one of the 40 largest PR firms in America, joins me to talk about AI, marketing, disruption, and the reshaped role of PR as an element of manufacturing marketing.
If you're ready to go from worrying about traffic to making an industrial marketing impact, hit play and learn from Greg.
Chapters
02:12 Understanding the Role of PR
06:04 The Evolving Landscape of PR and Manufacturing Marketing
23:31 Building Relationships Through Video
30:36 Navigating PR Strategies
33:15 The Future of SEO, PR, and Industrial Manufacturing Revenue Growth
54:09 The Future of AI and PR
01:07:08 Managing Long-Term PR Trends
01:10:20 The Board's Role in PR
01:13:34 The Critical Role of PR in Industrial Marketing

Resources

Check out Greg's website and podcast: Gregory FCA and The Disruption is Now
LinkedIn: Greg Matusky and Ed Marsh
Twitter: Greg Matusky and Ed Marsh
Instagram: Ed Marsh
YouTube: and
Show Transcript
You're Marketing and Selling to YESTERDAY'S Buyers!

Buyers' behaviors are shifting quickly. Industrial sales and manufacturing marketing teams must adapt radically and quickly. Traditional approaches are failing. We need to change, but first we need to understand how buyers are changing, how their behaviors are evolving, and what that means to us.

Read more from Ed's recent paper on these critical changes.

07/30/2025

A simplistic sales process sets your team up to fail. Most industrial sales teams never even know who makes the real buying decision!
Want to forecast accurately? You must understand how these five buying decisions shape the buying journey, and your sales process must address them!
Host Ed Marsh lays out his theory of five buying decisions in this solo Episode #71 of the Industrial Growth Institute Podcast
Summary
In this episode, Ed Marsh discusses the complexities of B2B industrial sales, emphasizing the importance of understanding the buying process and the critical decisions that influence sales outcomes. He illustrates that in most complex B2B buying decisions, the real decision is made without the reps, or even many influencers, even knowing.
The five buying decisions include:

to commit some resources to evaluating the potential improvement of a change
to request capital
to approve capital
how to select a vendor
vendor selection

And most complex sales teams and manufacturing marketing departments focus on decision number five - vendor selection - with endless talk about what they make and do.
He highlights the challenges faced by sales reps, the need for business acumen, and the significance of engaging with decision-makers early in the sales process.
The conversation outlines five key buying decisions that impact sales success and offers strategies for improving sales effectiveness in a competitive landscape.
Takeaways

Most complex industrial purchases must pass through hurdles of five buying decisions
Decisions 2 & 3 determine whether there is even a purchase, and most reps don't know about it.
Most big-ticket complex B2B industrial sales forecasts are fantasies.
Sales reps often don't understand how business buying decisions are made.
Buying teams typically consist of eight to twelve people.
Sales reps need to bring business acumen to conversations.
Most buyers prefer a sales rep-free experience.
The first vendor contacted often wins the order.
Sales efforts focus too much on vendor selection.
Understanding the five buying decisions is crucial for sales success.
Sales reps must engage with decision-makers early in the process.
Creating projects rather than just finding them is essential for success.

Takeaway Quote from Ed Marsh

"In many cases, the board is going to sign off."

Learn more about the five buying decisions here.
LinkedIn: Ed Marsh
Twitter: Ed Marsh
Instagram: Ed Marsh
YouTube:
Show Transcript
Chapters

00:00 Understanding the Flaws in B2B Sales Forecasting 02:46 The Complexity of B2B Sales 05:38 The Five Critical Buying Decisions 08:00 The Role of Sales Reps in Complex Sales 11:19 Navigating Capital Approval Processes 14:10 The Importance of Business Acumen in Sales 17:15 Creating Projects vs. Finding Opportunities 20:05 Conclusion and Call to Action

07/23/2025

Selling a business after a great run. Finding the right buyer, making the right decision, doing the deal right - Episode 70 of the Industrial Growth Institute Podcast with Michael Horn, Jr.
Summary
This week, Michael Horn, Jr., former CEO of AC Horn, a fourth-generation family-owned food processing machinery builder, is in the studio chatting about the journey to a business sale. After military service and a stint as a ski instructor, he joined the struggling family business in 2011 and became CEO unexpectedly in 2014 when his father died in a bicycle accident.
Michael shares details of the transformation he helped lead, turning a company weakened by the GFC into an automated, precision, contemporary manufacturer, and shifting from fabrication and component sales to systems. Fun fact - 80 to 90 % of nut butters made in North America ran through at least one AC Horn machine.
Michael speaks in detail about changes in buyer behaviors, the growth of buying teams, the impact of COVID-19 & PPP funds on capital equipment spending cycles, and succession planning. He offers tips for companies considering an exit, including:

Hire professional M&A advisors
Work outside the family business first to gain perspective and leadership experience
Maintain clean financial records and establish proper organizational structure with defined processes

The bottom line from Michael's perspective is simple - "Treat the business as an asset, not an heirloom." This enables you to make informed business decisions, including an exit if and when that becomes appropriate. In Michael's case, he watched another family successfully exit, and he planned to strategically emulate them. In early 2024, AC Horn was acquired by Probat.
Takeaways

Experience in the military teaches important business skills and perspectives
Succession planning is critical
Work outside the family business is an important preparatory step
Generational refresh can be important. Michael Sr. diversified from metal fab into machinery and Michael Jr. modernized the shop and business approach
Independent advisors and/or directors can guide a company through strategic transitions and exits
Bigger transactions (system sales) may be beneficial to both seller and buyer
International markets and competition have changed significantly in the past 15 years
Consolidation of domestic suppliers, often through earlier exits, has changed the landscape for manufacturers
COVID and PPP money may have distorted capital equipment investment cycles
Proper financial reporting is necessary to prepare for any transaction
Managing the business and diligence is taxing
Professional M&A advisory is critical to navigate the exit journey and achieve an appropriate outcome

Takeaway Quotes from Michael Horn

"Think about your business like it's an asset, not an heirloom."
"Assets have value. Values go up and down."
"You may think that you know your business, but you'll have no idea how to sell it."

Learn more about the Horn family legacy and machines: AC Horn
LinkedIn: Michael Horn, Jr. and Ed Marsh
Twitter: Ed Marsh
Instagram: Ed Marsh
YouTube:
Show Transcript
Chapters

00:00 The Importance of Legacy in Family Businesses 02:16 Michael Horn's Journey in the Family Business 06:33 Transitioning Leadership: A Personal Story 17:11 Navigating Crisis and Succession Planning 23:52 Adapting to Market Changes and Buyer Behavior 30:20 Building Strong Supplier Relationships 40:47 The Art of Relationship Building in Sales 43:05 Market Dynamics and Sales Strategies Post-COVID 46:19 Advice for Machinery Companies Facing Slowdowns 50:06 The Journey of Selling a Family Business 53:48 The Importance of M&A Advisors 57:39 Post-Sale Reflections and Employee Communication 59:30 Preparing for Future Business Transactions 01:02:34 Advice for G3 and G4 in Family Businesses 01:06:08 Resources for Family-Owned Businesses 01:09:30 Final Thoughts on Liquidity Events


You're Marketing and Selling to YESTERDAY'S Buyers!

Buyers' behaviors are shifting quickly. Industrial sales and manufacturing marketing teams must adapt radically and quickly. Traditional approaches are failing. We need to change, but first we need to understand how buyers are changing, how their behaviors are evolving, and what that means to us.

Read more from Ed's recent paper on these critical changes.